[449a]
Socrates
“To such a city, then, or
constitution I apply the terms good1 and right—and
to the corresponding kind of man; but the others I describe as bad and
mistaken, if this one is right, in respect both to the administration of
states and to the formation2 of the character of the individual soul, they falling under four
forms of badness.” “What are these,” he said.
And I was going on3 to enumerate them in what seemed to me the order of their
evolution4
[449b]
from one another, when
Polemarchus—he sat at some little distance5 from Adeimantus—stretched
forth his hand, and, taking hold of his garment6 from above by the shoulder, drew the other
toward him and, leaning forward himself, spoke a few words in his ear, of
which we overheard nothing7
else save only this, “Shall we let him off,8 then,” he said, “or
what shall we do?” “By no means,” said
Adeimantus, now raising his voice. “What, pray,”9 said I,
“is it that you are not letting off?”
“You,”
[449c]
said he.
“And for what reason, pray?” said I. “We think
you are a slacker,” he said, and are trying to cheat10 us out of a whole division,11
and that not the least, of the argument to avoid the trouble of expounding
it, and expect to ‘get away with it’ by observing thus
lightly that, of course, in respect to women and children it is obvious to
everybody that the possessions of friends will be in common.12” “Well, isn't
that right, Adeimantus?” I said. “Yes,” said
he, “but this word ‘right,’13 like other things, requires defining14 as to
the way15 and manner of such a
community. There might be many ways. Don't, then, pass over the one
[449d]
that you16 have in mind. For we have long
been lying in wait for you, expecting that you would say something both of
the procreation of children and their bringing up,17 and
would explain the whole matter of the community of women and children of
which you speak. We think that the right or wrong management of this makes a
great difference, all the difference in the world,18 in the constitution of a state; so
now, since you are beginning on another constitution before sufficiently
defining this, we are firmly resolved,
1 Cf. on 427 E, and Newman, Introduction to Aristotle Polotics p. 14; for ὀρθή, “normal,” see p.423.
2 κατασκευήν: a highly general word not to be pressed in this periphrasis. Cf. Gorgias 455 E, 477 B.
3 Cf. 562 C, Theaetetus 180 C, Stein on Herodotus i. 5. For the transition here to the digression of books V., VI., and VII. cf. Introduction p. xvii, Phaedo 84 C. “Digression” need not imply that these books were not a part of the original design.
4 μεταβαίνειν: the word is half technical. Cf. 547 C, 550 D, Laws 676 A, 736 D-E, 894 A.
5 ἀπωτέρω absolutely. Cf. Cratinus 229 Kock ὄνοι κάθηνται τῆς λύρας ἀπωτέρω.
6 Cf. 327 B.
7 Cf. 359 E.
8 Cf. on 327 C.
9 Cf. 337 D, 343 B, 421 C, 612 C, Laches 188 E, Meno 80 B. There is a play on the double meaning, “What, pray?” and “Why, pray?”
10 Cf. Sophocles Trach. 437.
11 So Isocrates xv. 74ὅλοις εἴδεσι.
12 Cf. 424 A, Laws 739 C. Aristotle says that the possessions of friends should be separate in ownership but common in use, as at Sparta. Cf. Newman, Introduction to Aristotle Politics p. 201, Epicurus in Diogenes Laertius x. 11, Aristotle Politics 1263 a 30 ff., Euripides Andromache 270.
13 Cf. 459 D, Laws 668 D, Aristotle Politics 1269 b 13, Shakespeare Tro. and Cre. I. i. 23 “But here's yet in the word hereafter the kneading, the making of the cake,” etc.
14 Cf. Laws 665 B 7.
15 Cf. Aristotle Politics 1264 a 12.
16 Emphatic. Cf. 427 E.
17 γενομένους: a noun is supplied from the preceding verb. Cf. on 598 C, and on 341 D.
18 μέγα . . . καὶ ὅλον: cf. 469 C, 527 C, Phaedo 79 E, Laws 779 B, 944 C, Symposium 188 D, Demosthenes ii. 22, Aeschylus Prom. 961.
Plato. Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vols. 5 & 6 translated by Paul Shorey. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1969.
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