[249a]
but awful and holy, devoid of mind, is fixed and immovable?Theaetetus
That would be a shocking admission to make, Stranger.Stranger
But shall we say that it has mind, but not life?Theaetetus
How can we?Stranger
But do we say that both of these exist in it, and yet go on to say that it does not possess them in a soul?Theaetetus
But how else can it possess them?Stranger
Then shall we say that it has mind and life and soul, but, although endowed with soul, is absolutely immovable? [249b] Theaetetus
All those things seem to me absurd.Stranger
And it must be conceded that motion and that which is moved exist.Theaetetus
Of course.Stranger
Then the result is, Theaetetus, that if there is no motion, there is no mind in anyone about anything anywhere.Theaetetus
Exactly.Stranger
And on the other hand, if we admit that all things are in flux and motion, we shall remove mind itself from the number of existing things by this theory also.Theaetetus
How so?Stranger
Do you think that sameness of quality or nature [249c] or relations could ever come into existence without the state of rest?Theaetetus
Not at all.Stranger
What then? Without these can you see how mind could exist or come into existence anywhere?Theaetetus
By no means.Stranger
And yet we certainly must contend by every argument against him who does away with knowledge or reason or mind and then makes any dogmatic assertion about anything.Theaetetus
Certainly.Stranger
Then the philosopher, who pays the highest honor to these things, must necessarily, as it seems, because of them refuse to accept the theory of those who say the universe is at rest, whether as a unity or in many forms, [249d] and must also refuse utterly to listen to those who say that being is universal motion; he must quote the children's prayer,1 “all things immovable and in motion,” and must say that being and the universe consist of both.Theaetetus
Very true.Stranger
Do we not, then, seem to have attained at last a pretty good definition of being?Theaetetus
Certainly.Stranger
But dear me, Theaetetus! I think we are now going to discover the difficulty of the inquiry about being. [249e] Theaetetus
What is this again? What do you mean?Stranger
My dear fellow, don't you see that we are now densely ignorant about it, but think that we are saying something worth while?Theaetetus
I think so, at any rate, and I do not at all understand what hidden error we have fallen into.Stranger
Then watch more closely and see whether, if we make these admissions,
That would be a shocking admission to make, Stranger.Stranger
But shall we say that it has mind, but not life?Theaetetus
How can we?Stranger
But do we say that both of these exist in it, and yet go on to say that it does not possess them in a soul?Theaetetus
But how else can it possess them?Stranger
Then shall we say that it has mind and life and soul, but, although endowed with soul, is absolutely immovable? [249b] Theaetetus
All those things seem to me absurd.Stranger
And it must be conceded that motion and that which is moved exist.Theaetetus
Of course.Stranger
Then the result is, Theaetetus, that if there is no motion, there is no mind in anyone about anything anywhere.Theaetetus
Exactly.Stranger
And on the other hand, if we admit that all things are in flux and motion, we shall remove mind itself from the number of existing things by this theory also.Theaetetus
How so?Stranger
Do you think that sameness of quality or nature [249c] or relations could ever come into existence without the state of rest?Theaetetus
Not at all.Stranger
What then? Without these can you see how mind could exist or come into existence anywhere?Theaetetus
By no means.Stranger
And yet we certainly must contend by every argument against him who does away with knowledge or reason or mind and then makes any dogmatic assertion about anything.Theaetetus
Certainly.Stranger
Then the philosopher, who pays the highest honor to these things, must necessarily, as it seems, because of them refuse to accept the theory of those who say the universe is at rest, whether as a unity or in many forms, [249d] and must also refuse utterly to listen to those who say that being is universal motion; he must quote the children's prayer,1 “all things immovable and in motion,” and must say that being and the universe consist of both.Theaetetus
Very true.Stranger
Do we not, then, seem to have attained at last a pretty good definition of being?Theaetetus
Certainly.Stranger
But dear me, Theaetetus! I think we are now going to discover the difficulty of the inquiry about being. [249e] Theaetetus
What is this again? What do you mean?Stranger
My dear fellow, don't you see that we are now densely ignorant about it, but think that we are saying something worth while?Theaetetus
I think so, at any rate, and I do not at all understand what hidden error we have fallen into.Stranger
Then watch more closely and see whether, if we make these admissions,
