[23a]
And we can only say, as it seems, that mind was wise in not laying claim to the victory; for it would have met with the same fate. Now pleasure, if she were to lose the second prize, would be deeply humiliated in the eyes of her lovers; for she would no longer appear even to them so lovely as before.Socrates
Well, then, is it not better to leave her now and not to pain her by testing her to the utmost and proving her in the wrong?Protarchus
Nonsense, Socrates! [23b] Socrates
Nonsense because I spoke of paining pleasure, and that is impossible?Protarchus
Not only that, but because you do not understand that not one of us will let you go yet until you have finished the argument about these matters.Socrates
Whew, Protarchus! Then we have a long discussion before us, and not an easy one, either, this time. For in going ahead to fight mindÕs battle for the second place, I think I need a new contrivance—other weapons, as it were, than those of our previous discussion, though perhaps some of the old ones will serve. Must I then go on?Protarchus
Of course you must.Socrates
Then let us try to be careful [23c] in making our beginning.Protarchus
What kind of a beginning do you mean?Socrates
Let us divide all things that now exist in the universe into two, or rather, if you please, three classes.Protarchus
Please tell us on what principle you would divide them.Socrates
Let us take some of the subjects of our present discussion.Protarchus
What subjects?Socrates
We said that God revealed in the universe two elements, the infinite and the finite, did we not?Protarchus
Certainly.Socrates
Let us, then, assume these as two of our classes, and a third, made by combining these two. [23d] But I cut a ridiculous figure, it seems, when I attempt a division into classes and an enumeration.Protarchus
What do you mean, my friend?Socrates
I think we need a fourth class besides.Protarchus
Tell us what it is.Socrates
Note the cause of the combination of those two and assume that as the fourth in addition to the previous three.Protarchus
And then will you not need a fifth, which has the power of separation?Socrates
Perhaps; but not at present, I think. However, if we do need a fifth, [23e] you will pardon me for going after it.Protarchus
Of course.Socrates
First, then, let us take three of the four and, as we see that two of these are split up and scattered each one into many, let us try, by collecting each of them again into one, to learn how each of them was both one and many.Protarchus
If you could tell me more clearly about them, I might be able to follow you.
Well, then, is it not better to leave her now and not to pain her by testing her to the utmost and proving her in the wrong?Protarchus
Nonsense, Socrates! [23b] Socrates
Nonsense because I spoke of paining pleasure, and that is impossible?Protarchus
Not only that, but because you do not understand that not one of us will let you go yet until you have finished the argument about these matters.Socrates
Whew, Protarchus! Then we have a long discussion before us, and not an easy one, either, this time. For in going ahead to fight mindÕs battle for the second place, I think I need a new contrivance—other weapons, as it were, than those of our previous discussion, though perhaps some of the old ones will serve. Must I then go on?Protarchus
Of course you must.Socrates
Then let us try to be careful [23c] in making our beginning.Protarchus
What kind of a beginning do you mean?Socrates
Let us divide all things that now exist in the universe into two, or rather, if you please, three classes.Protarchus
Please tell us on what principle you would divide them.Socrates
Let us take some of the subjects of our present discussion.Protarchus
What subjects?Socrates
We said that God revealed in the universe two elements, the infinite and the finite, did we not?Protarchus
Certainly.Socrates
Let us, then, assume these as two of our classes, and a third, made by combining these two. [23d] But I cut a ridiculous figure, it seems, when I attempt a division into classes and an enumeration.Protarchus
What do you mean, my friend?Socrates
I think we need a fourth class besides.Protarchus
Tell us what it is.Socrates
Note the cause of the combination of those two and assume that as the fourth in addition to the previous three.Protarchus
And then will you not need a fifth, which has the power of separation?Socrates
Perhaps; but not at present, I think. However, if we do need a fifth, [23e] you will pardon me for going after it.Protarchus
Of course.Socrates
First, then, let us take three of the four and, as we see that two of these are split up and scattered each one into many, let us try, by collecting each of them again into one, to learn how each of them was both one and many.Protarchus
If you could tell me more clearly about them, I might be able to follow you.
