[20a]
Protarchus
I mean puzzling us and asking questions to which we cannot at the moment give a satisfactory answer. Let us not imagine that the end of our present discussion is a mere puzzling of us all, but if we cannot answer, you must do so; for you gave us a promise. Consider, therefore, whether you yourself must distinguish the kinds of pleasure and knowledge or will let that go, in case you are able and willing to make clear in some other way the matters now at issue among us. [20b] Socrates
I need no longer anticipate anything terrible, since you put it in that way; for the words “in case you are willing” relieve me of all fear. And besides, I think some god has given me a vague recollection.Protarchus
How is that, and what is the recollection about?Socrates
I remember now having heard long ago in a dream, or perhaps when I was awake, some talk about pleasure and wisdom to the effect that neither of the two is the good, but some third thing, different from them and better than both. [20c] However, if this be now clearly proved to us, pleasure is deprived of victory for the good would no longer be identical with it. Is not that true?Protarchus
It is.Socrates
And we shall have, in my opinion, no longer any need of distinguishing the kinds of pleasure. But the progress of the discussion will make that still clearer.Protarchus
Excellent! Just go on as you have begun.Socrates
First, then, let us agree on some further small points.Protarchus
What are they?Socrates
Is the nature of the good necessarily perfect [20d] or imperfect?Protarchus
The most perfect of all things, surely, Socrates.Socrates
Well, and is the good sufficient?Protarchus
Of course; so that it surpasses all other things in sufficiency.Socrates
And nothing, I should say, is more certain about it than that every intelligent being pursues it, desires it, wishes to catch and get possession of it, and has no interest in anything in which the good is not included.Protarchus
There is no denying that. [20e] Socrates
Let us, then, look at the life of pleasure and the life of wisdom separately and consider and judge them.Protarchus
How do you mean?Socrates
Let there be no wisdom in the life of pleasure and no pleasure in the life of wisdom. For if either of them is the good, it cannot have need of anything else, and if, either be found to need anything,
I mean puzzling us and asking questions to which we cannot at the moment give a satisfactory answer. Let us not imagine that the end of our present discussion is a mere puzzling of us all, but if we cannot answer, you must do so; for you gave us a promise. Consider, therefore, whether you yourself must distinguish the kinds of pleasure and knowledge or will let that go, in case you are able and willing to make clear in some other way the matters now at issue among us. [20b] Socrates
I need no longer anticipate anything terrible, since you put it in that way; for the words “in case you are willing” relieve me of all fear. And besides, I think some god has given me a vague recollection.Protarchus
How is that, and what is the recollection about?Socrates
I remember now having heard long ago in a dream, or perhaps when I was awake, some talk about pleasure and wisdom to the effect that neither of the two is the good, but some third thing, different from them and better than both. [20c] However, if this be now clearly proved to us, pleasure is deprived of victory for the good would no longer be identical with it. Is not that true?Protarchus
It is.Socrates
And we shall have, in my opinion, no longer any need of distinguishing the kinds of pleasure. But the progress of the discussion will make that still clearer.Protarchus
Excellent! Just go on as you have begun.Socrates
First, then, let us agree on some further small points.Protarchus
What are they?Socrates
Is the nature of the good necessarily perfect [20d] or imperfect?Protarchus
The most perfect of all things, surely, Socrates.Socrates
Well, and is the good sufficient?Protarchus
Of course; so that it surpasses all other things in sufficiency.Socrates
And nothing, I should say, is more certain about it than that every intelligent being pursues it, desires it, wishes to catch and get possession of it, and has no interest in anything in which the good is not included.Protarchus
There is no denying that. [20e] Socrates
Let us, then, look at the life of pleasure and the life of wisdom separately and consider and judge them.Protarchus
How do you mean?Socrates
Let there be no wisdom in the life of pleasure and no pleasure in the life of wisdom. For if either of them is the good, it cannot have need of anything else, and if, either be found to need anything,
