[438a]
Now let us drop this and return to the point at which we digressed. A little while ago, you may remember, you said he who gave names must have known the things to which he gave them. Do you still hold that opinion, or not?Cratylus
I do.Socrates
And you say that he who gave the first names also knew the things which he named?Cratylus
Yes, he knew them.Socrates
But from what names had he learned or discovered the things, [438b] if the first names had not yet been given, and if we declare that it is impossible to learn or discover things except by learning or ourselves discovering the names?Cratylus
I think there is something in what you say, Socrates.Socrates
How can we assert that they gave names or were lawgivers with knowledge, before any name whatsoever had been given, and before they knew any names, if things cannot be learned except through their names? [438c] Cratylus
I think the truest theory of the matter, Socrates, is that the power which gave the first names to things is more than human, and therefore the names must necessarily be correct.Socrates
Then, in your opinion, he who gave the names, though he was a spirit or a god, would have given names which made him contradict himself? Or do you think there is no sense in what we were saying just now?Cratylus
But, Socrates, those that make up one of the two classes are not really names.Socrates
Which of the two, my excellent friend; the class of those which point towards rest or of those that point towards motion? We agreed just now that the matter is not to be determined by mere numbers. [438d] Cratylus
No; that would not be right, Socrates.Socrates
Then since the names are in conflict, and some of them claim that they are like the truth, and others that they are, how can we decide, and upon what shall we base our decision? Certainly not upon other names differing from these, for there are none. No, it is plain that we must look for something else, not names, which shall show us which of these two kinds are the true names, which of them, that is to say, [438e] show the truth of things.Cratylus
That is my opinion.Socrates
Then if that is true, Cratylus, it seems that things may be learned without names.Cratylus
So it appears.Socrates
What other way is left by which you could expect to know them? What other than the natural and the straightest way, through each other, if they are akin, and through themselves? For that which is other and different from them would signify not them, but something other and different.Cratylus
I think that is true.
I do.Socrates
And you say that he who gave the first names also knew the things which he named?Cratylus
Yes, he knew them.Socrates
But from what names had he learned or discovered the things, [438b] if the first names had not yet been given, and if we declare that it is impossible to learn or discover things except by learning or ourselves discovering the names?Cratylus
I think there is something in what you say, Socrates.Socrates
How can we assert that they gave names or were lawgivers with knowledge, before any name whatsoever had been given, and before they knew any names, if things cannot be learned except through their names? [438c] Cratylus
I think the truest theory of the matter, Socrates, is that the power which gave the first names to things is more than human, and therefore the names must necessarily be correct.Socrates
Then, in your opinion, he who gave the names, though he was a spirit or a god, would have given names which made him contradict himself? Or do you think there is no sense in what we were saying just now?Cratylus
But, Socrates, those that make up one of the two classes are not really names.Socrates
Which of the two, my excellent friend; the class of those which point towards rest or of those that point towards motion? We agreed just now that the matter is not to be determined by mere numbers. [438d] Cratylus
No; that would not be right, Socrates.Socrates
Then since the names are in conflict, and some of them claim that they are like the truth, and others that they are, how can we decide, and upon what shall we base our decision? Certainly not upon other names differing from these, for there are none. No, it is plain that we must look for something else, not names, which shall show us which of these two kinds are the true names, which of them, that is to say, [438e] show the truth of things.Cratylus
That is my opinion.Socrates
Then if that is true, Cratylus, it seems that things may be learned without names.Cratylus
So it appears.Socrates
What other way is left by which you could expect to know them? What other than the natural and the straightest way, through each other, if they are akin, and through themselves? For that which is other and different from them would signify not them, but something other and different.Cratylus
I think that is true.
